I glue up my halves, then when cleaned up, I just hammer the backstrip into the back. Forget the router. Just beat it in. Harder woods take bigger hammers.
Steve
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| Back Strip - Inlay or join? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=5216 |
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| Author: | dubell [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:03 am ] |
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I am getting ready to install my first back strip. Some inlay this strip to an already joined back and some join it in between the back halves when glueing up the back. Is there a structural issue by joining it versus inlaying? Thanks, Doug |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:14 am ] |
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I think it's much better to joing the back first, then cut out a shallow channel and inlay the strip. This way, you get the two plates together, and the back strip will have a three-surface glue joint. It might be a bit more time consuming that just sandwiching (is that a word?) the backstrip between the back plates, but I find it's worth the effort. Is it a hardwood strip with laminations, or some plastic herringbone type inlay? I know this has been discussed recently and some guys have tried, and succeeded, both ways. Hope this helps. |
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| Author: | John How [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:25 am ] |
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I always join then inlay. Not sure if it's better or worse, just the way I do it. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:29 am ] |
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I hate doing more than I have to. I glue them between the plates. One less thing to go wrong. I doupt that one way is much better than the other just a personal preference. The strip is covered on the inside by cross grained bracing anyway. Try both ways and see which is your favorite. john hall blues creek guitars |
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| Author: | tl507362 [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:39 am ] |
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I join them all at once too. If your in a real hurry, just clamp, wick in super glue and then accelerator, then unclamp. Then on to the center strip. Since the center strip will be regular wood glue or hide glue, the joint will stay together no problem. Good luck! Tracy |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:07 am ] |
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Seems to me that if you take all that effort to properly joint and candle the 2 halves, why would you introduce that strip into the joining equation. Unless I was certain that the strip had a perfectly jointed surface on each side I wouldn't do it. I'd feel more secure in routing a narrow slot for the strip. I like the idea of the routed strip since it offers more gluing surface area. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:08 am ] |
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It depends on the backstrip! If it's shell, you really need to join the back first, route a slot and inlay. If it's a backstrip, like a zipper strip, it's easiest and acceptable to join between the plates. As John mentioned, there is a backstrip on the inside to support the feature. |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:20 am ] |
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I join mine between the plates, and haven't had a problem. Its been done by everybody from Torres to Ramirez. |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:21 am ] |
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I glue up my halves, then when cleaned up, I just hammer the backstrip into the back. Forget the router. Just beat it in. Harder woods take bigger hammers. Steve
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| Author: | jfrench [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:32 am ] |
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Steve... thats the funniest thing I've ever seen posted here! |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:39 am ] |
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[QUOTE=jfrench] Steve... thats the funniest thing I've ever seen posted here![/QUOTE] What...you think I'm being facetious? To lend credibility to that advice, I should have urged studied blows, deliberate whacks. Power with finesse.  One wants to be taken seriously!
I just hope Doug gets his question answered, and isn't too put out with a little jocularity. Steve |
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| Author: | rlabbe [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:55 am ] |
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You dang professionals just keep raising the bar higher and higher for us poor amateurs. 
Guess I have to give up on the staples and bailing twine. I'm off to the hardware store to get me a hammer.... |
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| Author: | Mike Mahar [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:57 am ] |
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It depends on the strip. I have some herringbone that is too thin to be joined in between the two pieces. It the strip was made for it, it will be thick enough and that is how I do it. The problem I have with inlaying is that I almost never have a router bit the is exactly the correct width for the strip so I have to set my guide, route the channel, move the strip over just the right amount and route again. It is very easy to route it too wide and then you have a sloppy fit. On the other hand, it is also possible to route the slot just a tiny bit too narrow and you think the strip fits nice and snug. Glue it in and the back now is no longer flat. I've done both ways. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:18 am ] |
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I join, then inlay. Or, y'know, skip the backstrip entirely if the wood's interesting enough on its own. |
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| Author: | Philip Perdue [ Tue Feb 21, 2006 11:01 am ] |
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I find this post quite interesting as I was wondering about this just reciently. My leaning would be toward inlay because it adds to the amount of glued surface area. |
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| Author: | Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:29 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] I glue up my halves, then when cleaned up, I just hammer the backstrip into the back. Forget the router. Just beat it in. Harder woods take bigger hammers. Steve [/QUOTE]
better yet just glue it on to the joined back and put a really thick finish on it and level it, of course 
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| Author: | Brian Hawkins [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:36 am ] |
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A clean join and your center brace will provide more than enough strength there...look inside a Larivee and you won't see a center brace (or side braces for that matter) at all. |
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| Author: | Joe Beaver [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:09 am ] |
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I join then inlay, unless it is a solid wood backstrip. Then I epoxy it between the plates. |
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| Author: | tippie53 [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:49 am ] |
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With todays glues , often the glue is stronger than the wood anyway. I did one time try the inlay bit. It was the worse looking back strip joint I have ever done. Why risk tearout and make another step in a process? Also on the glue surface the cross grain spruce back splice will also add a great deal of stability to the joint. However I do like the hammer method , Can I use a chain saw to joint the edge? I think I may like scallop edge joining. john hall still have all 9 7/8 fingers |
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| Author: | Sylvan [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:30 am ] |
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You can do it either way. It is probably faster to butt joint all the pieces but if you are inlaying a complicated back inlay then you are probably better to cut a channel and work the inlay in place. You can make a jig that allows you to rout the channel to the exact dimension of the inlay using the inlay itself to set the jigging up. Then, there literally can be no screwups. Maybe I should post an article on my site about a back inlaying (and butt joint) jig! |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 9:42 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Sylvan] Maybe I should post an article on my site about a back inlaying (and butt joint) jig![/QUOTE] That would be most welcomed, Sylvan! SK |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:05 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] What...you think I'm being facetious? To lend credibility to that advice, I should have urged studied blows, deliberate whacks. Power with finesse. One wants to be taken seriously!
I just hope Doug gets his question answered, and isn't too put out with a little jocularity. [/QUOTE] Shoot! I thought you were serious, I just ruined $30 worth of abalam trying your method! You owe me Steve! |
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